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Disclaimer: This is an automatic translation of the German interview and not manually checked. The translation is made with DeepL

Hike and Fly

Ad Nubes: Peter, what do you find fascinating about hike and fly?

Peter: Yes, that’s a good question. I find that incredibly difficult to say, I used to go to the mountains a lot and initially had no fascination with flying, I only ever saw people driving around in cars and heavy equipment. Then I took a flight once and suddenly I thought, come on, you can combine that somehow, your passion for the mountains with flying, and then it really pulled at my heartstrings and I wanted to have one of those super-light gliders while I was still at school. My flying instructor then told me, no, that’s not possible, you have to take a robust one.

Ad Nubes: Who was that?

Peter: Urs Lötscher, maybe you know him, he’s written books, he’s an old warhorse here in Switzerland.

Ad Nubes: When was that? What year?

Peter: I did that about 15 years ago.

Ad Nubes: That was before the hype, you could say.

Peter: But back then there were already the first single-skin wings. I was totally fascinated by them, but then I also realised that high alpine flying is a bit more difficult. I then realised that you have to know your way around a bit better. I’ve carried my glider back down from the high mountains a few times, but that happens less often now.

I did my first races in Frutigen, where Chrigel lives, and I knew straight away that this was it, I wouldn’t let go of it any time soon. It’s also a bit of a gut thing. I think you’re on your own. Me and nature or you and nature. Sometimes you don’t have anyone to give you tips, you just have to decide for yourself and then I love the peace and quiet, I love the lonely launch sites. And I also love the feeling of height that you have achieved. You’ve achieved it with your own legs, which I find somehow beautiful.

And what’s more, there’s also the socialising. For example, I sometimes find it a pity when cross-country flying that you go there, then you sit together for a short time and then everyone flies off somewhere and at some point you lose sight of each other and when you go up the mountain together for, say, three hours, you simply experience more together.

Ad Nubes: But you’re only seen alone in the videos. Do you have someone with you to record you?

Peter: I do most hike and flys alone, but of course I also like to go with people. It’s also a bit of an artefact from the video, because everything has to be right. I only make videos when it’s sunny, but I do a lot of hikes with other people. But when I go to the summit that I’ve already filmed, I don’t record it again. And I do a lot with my dog, which is also really nice.

Ad Nubes: How can you explain that? Why is it a special feeling when you’ve run up somewhere before? I’ve experienced that too, it’s somehow a very liberating feeling, where does that come from?

Peter: I don’t know, I think the mountain is more yours, you’ve conquered it, that’s a bit daft to say, but it’s just a more intense confrontation with the mountain and this altitude and I think you also realise a lot more when you go up there. What it’s like in the valley, what it’s like halfway up, what it’s like at the top. It’s good to sweat a little.

Ad Nubes: For the figure?

Peter: Yes.

Ad Nubes: What criteria do you use to select your hike and fly areas?

Peter: Of course they should be beautiful, right? And beautiful often also means varied, which I think is nice, even if a hike leads through different valleys, for example, or over a ridge and then you can see into another valley. Sometimes it can also be spectacular or more difficult hikes or a bit special. You know, a nice mountain restaurant or something, that’s always nice too. Or a cosy little train. Sometimes you do the first part on a small railway, my favourite is the very small ones, like the ones that are very common in the Engelberg valley, for example, where you pay with tokens. These are the nice things that add flavour. I also think it’s nice to walk in winter, I think flying over snow in winter is terribly beautiful. The question is, of course, whether it’s possible with snowshoes and whether it’s possible to take off. Those are other criteria.

Ad Nubes: The hikes you present in the videos are not particularly extreme. The difference in altitude is also manageable for normal pilots or hikers.

Peter: I actually want to do hikes, two or three that are T 3 or T 4, but I basically want to do hikes that any average hiker and flyer can do. That’s actually my goal. There are also books about very extreme people who climb up some north face and then fly down. But they do it themselves, but no one imitates them, that’s not my goal.

Ad Nubes: These are normal hiking trails that you are presenting. There are no climbing passages, but normal hikes?

Peter: There may be a chain somewhere where you have to hold on or where you’re exposed. I always say that when it gets more difficult, but three quarters or four fifths of the tours I describe are actually quite easy to do.

Ad Nubes: What does T3 or T4 mean that you just mentioned.

Peter: This is a scale from the Swiss Alpine Club that describes the difficulty of hikes. Maybe it’s not used everywhere, T 4, for example, means that you could fall off. You really need to be sure-footed and perhaps use a chain or a short scramble. A head for heights is part of it.

Ad Nubes: Are these areas that you choose yourself or do you have a large circle of friends who give you tips?

Peter: There are those too, yes. What really impressed me was the book by Werner Bösch, I don’t know if you know it, 50 Traumtouren Hike and Fly in der Schweiz. It inspired me. I recreate many of his tours and then make a video. He didn’t shoot any videos, just photos and texts. I find it a bit more appealing to have a video. But of course I let myself be inspired. There are lots of online portals, like burnair or Paragliding 365 or something like that, where you can see the peaks where you can fly well. Actually, there are many more destinations. There are probably many more destinations than you can do. For me, of course, the distance is also a deciding factor, I would like to do more in Ticino and more in the Bernese Oberland or western Switzerland, but then the travelling times are a bit longer.

Ad Nubes: What was the maximum altitude difference you’ve managed so far?

Peter: That’s usually a maximum of 1200 metres. I sometimes take part in certain competitions. Of course, you do a lot more altitude metres there. Sometimes it’s over 2000 or 2500 metres in altitude.

Ad Nubes: That wouldn’t be for me. How do you prepare yourself, with fitness training, running, gym or is hiking your own fitness plan?

Peter: I try to jog regularly, that’s important to me. I think the best way to maintain a basic level of fitness is to jog maybe twice a week. I try to do something at the weekend, including regular altitude metres. You could always do more, I’m not insane, I mean, I’m not a top athlete. I just do it for myself and I think it’s great. I know people who are training for the X-Alps right now, they go about it in a completely different way.

Ad Nubes: Once you’ve done something like that, you really appreciate what they do.

Peter: That’s insane, and then usually over several days, that’s quite enormous.

Ad Nubes: Do you pay attention to the starting places? It’s often a challenge to find good starting places when you’re doing a hike, is that a selection criterion for you?

Peter: Yes and no. It’s often easy to find a good launch site above the tree line, especially if the hilltops are, how shall we say, moderate, i.e. rather round. There are really round hilltops where you can fly down in almost any direction. I can think of the Kaiserstuhl in the Engelberg valley, for example, which is a really round mountain in 360 degrees. Taking off in the snow can be more difficult, I’ve had some unpleasant experiences where I just couldn’t get away.

Ad Nubes: So you had to run down again in this case?

Peter: Once I had to run back down, I sank into the snow so much that I just couldn’t get a start and the wind was coming from my back. Otherwise, I wouldn’t say that it’s more difficult or, on the contrary, you often have several options to choose from, when you run up, you might see half an hour below the summit, here it was also possible and you can also go in a different direction, somehow you always find something, I think the main difference is that you have to decide for yourself: I’m going to start here.

Ad Nubes: Especially for beginners who have done their licence, it’s not really advisable to do a hike and fly straight afterwards, because you really have to make your own decision to take off. Possibly alone on the mountain, you then have to be able to decide for yourself.

Peter: Yes, but you know, I find that a deceptive security. I mean, when you’re flying or launching in a pack, you always think that if the other person does it, then it’s safe, that’s no guarantee at all. There have been accidents at very busy launch sites where people have flown out, but the wind conditions were actually bad. So sometimes it’s a false sense of security, this pack decision or this swarm intelligence.

Ad Nubes: It’s the same for every beginner. I also relied too much on other people at the beginning, but that develops over time. Is there a mandatory launch site in Switzerland? Here in Germany you are only allowed to launch from an authorised launch site.

Peter: Yes, we have a bit more room for manoeuvre in Switzerland. There is actually no obligation to launch in Switzerland. There are nature reserves where you’re not allowed to launch, but otherwise it’s actually free, you can even launch in pastures, in principle you can launch anywhere.

Ad Nubes: You don’t even have to ask the owner of the pasture?

Peter: No, in Switzerland there is a regulation that pastures can be entered. This is also valid for hikers and what you are allowed to enter, you are also allowed to start and you don’t actually have to ask, but of course, if there is someone there, and there is usually no one, then I always ask if it’s okay.

Ad Nubes: It’s even more relaxed than in Austria. In Austria, in theory, you have to ask the terrain holder whether you are allowed to start and then it is even more relaxed or better handled in your country.

Peter: We have more freedom here, which is great in Switzerland.

Ad Nubes: Switzerland is a model country when it comes to travelling by train, all the areas you choose are easy to reach.

Peter: I only make videos of tours that can be reached by public transport. I think you’ve already recognised that, I have a pattern. I always do it in a similar way, I usually record the bus or train that took me there as the first scene, and I actually think it’s cool that people can get there without a car and I personally really appreciate it. I live in the centre of Zurich in the city, I don’t have a car at all, I also really appreciate the fact that I don’t have to fly back to the car, but maybe on the back of the mountain or maybe if there’s a cross-country flight, you never know that in advance. And if I don’t have to fly back to the car, I also think it’s a nice gesture towards nature, then I’m travelling quite ecologically. These are my reasons for only making these videos.

Ad Nubes: Do you have something like a Germany ticket in Switzerland? We’ve had a Germany ticket for two or three years.

Peter: Yes, I’ve heard about it, there are people who have the GA travelcard, that’s what it’s called, it has nothing to do with war, and there’s the half-day travelcard, where you just pay half, most Swiss people have that, you can travel cheaper.

Ad Nubes: What does it cost?

Peter: The half-day travelcard costs 165 francs a year. If you are travelling in Switzerland a few times, it can pay for itself relatively quickly.

Ad Nubes: Do you have any tips for beginners who want to start hike and fly? What should they pay particular attention to?

Peter: I don’t think you should allow yourself to become too insecure. Sometimes it’s not safe to rely on others. You have to decide for yourself anyway, just go for it, just try it out. If you don’t want to do it on your own, you can join a club or flying schools sometimes offer hike and fly days. There are also lots of circles with WhatsApp groups where people go together. That’s also very, very nice, but I think you should just do it, you don’t have to do something really difficult. The equipment is still important, you need to have a decent pair of shoes, not too heavy equipment. Just take part in these competitions. There are very simple competitions where you don’t have to fly a lot and where you don’t have to be incredibly fit. That makes a wonderful impression. What do the other people do, who gets further and that’s fun.

Ad Nubes: We just mentioned this earlier. Do all the mountains where you hike and fly come from your own experience or do you have a lot of tips from your circle of friends?

Peter: I really like planning it on my own, that’s part of the anticipation. Some people don’t share that. I like to read maps, I think about where I’m going up, where it might be steep, where it’s sunny, where it’s shady, what time of day I’ll be where. I find that part of the joy and that’s why I’m more often the one who comes up with the idea than someone else coming to me and saying, come on, we could go there.

Ad Nubes: And of course these are also paradisiacal conditions for hike and flyers in Switzerland if you are allowed to start anywhere.

Peter: That’s really nice.

Ad Nubes: Do you have a favourite hike and fly mountain though.

Peter: I actually like variety when I can do something new, that’s always the best. But there are a few mountains that I find beautiful. I really like the Engelberg valley. The lower Engelberg valley in particular, there are many secluded peaks, the Titlis is a bit overcrowded, but further down there are many, many beautiful peaks, for example the Buochserhorn or the Arvigrat, which are also very varied, or the Rüth in Prättigau is also beautiful, you’re often not alone there.

Ad Nubes: Do you also use a cross-country wing for your hike and fly or are you just gliding?

Peter: It depends a lot on the time of year, of course, but the other day we were in Ticino and we flew for 3 hours afterwards, did a two-hour hike and flew for 3 hours, so that was great. It’s a bit of a matter of luck, of course, and it’s not my top priority. My friends, who are really into cross-country flying, need every second to cross-country fly and add another kilometre. I’m not like that, I’m not so keen to optimise it to the last second. I might even run up if it’s already flying. I also like to fly far if I can. The typical hike and fly season is autumn, when this is less often the case. As I said at the beginning, I think it’s wonderful to fly over snow, then there’s usually nothing to do with thermalling. But it’s still wonderful.

Ad Nubes: You hike and fly all year round?

Peter: Yes.

Ad Nubes: Do you still use the cable car at all or is it a taboo for you?

Peter: Yes, I do. If there’s a cable car, I use it too, but not only. Sometimes I take the cable car and then walk, but I like to use it as an introduction. I’m not dogmatic about saying you shouldn’t use the cable car, you can combine the two very nicely.

Ad Nubes: You often have the problem on the take-off hill, especially in Switzerland, when you can do it so freely that you don’t have a wind indicator. Is there a tip or trick for making a wind indicator?

Peter: For some time now, I’ve actually always had a few hand strings with me that I tie to a fir tree or something. I think that has already helped me. Sometimes it can be difficult, especially when it’s so thermal and the wind is coming from all directions. If the wind is coming very clearly from one direction, then you can feel it very well on your face or you just have to point your ears into the wind and then you can feel where the wind is coming from. But I do find that when it’s very thermal and lightly windy, the wind sometimes comes from all sides, so you’re glad to have a lace.

Ad Nubes: You use hemp ropes, which then rot over time.

Peter: Yes, exactly, so of course no plastic.

Ad Nubes: Do you have sticks with you? In snow you often have the problem that the glider slips down so that you can lock the glider or have you not had such problems yet?

Peter: I have had problems, but unfortunately I don’t have these sticks. I’ve had slipping problems when it’s steep, but I’ve usually managed to get away somehow. You know how I see it.

Ad Nubes: I’ve seen it on videos. I do a hike and fly from time to time. I just really like flying a big harness, it’s not so nervous, the light harnesses are often nervous and I don’t like that at all and I like to have my peace in the air.

Peter: That is perhaps something that is a bit more demanding. I think you need stronger nerves with these ultralight harnesses and unfortunately I sometimes don’t have them.

Ad Nubes: What kind of harness are you flying?

Peter: I have the Skywalk X-Alps Range 2.

Ad Nubes: But you fly a seat harness with your dog?

Peter: I only fly with the dog in a sitting harness, then I have the Advance Easyness, with the dog it doesn’t work with the recumbent harness, it has to sit on my legs, that’s the only way it works.

Ad Nubes: Which glider do you fly?

Peter: I am now flying the Phi Allegro X-Alps, which is a light wing.

Ad Nubes: Just that one or do you have another one?

Peter: I still have a single skin, but it’s getting a bit long in the tooth and I still have an old Ozone, but I only fly it in rough conditions, in sand and so on.

Ad Nubes: How did you come up with the idea of flying with your dog?

Peter: Yes, I just think it’s great to be out and about with the dog. We haven’t had the dog that long, he’s only 2 years old and I’ve been looking into which dog breed would work and we have a Jack Russell, who has a pretty fearless disposition. It actually went really well right from the start and I think it’s really nice, we both really enjoy it.

Ad Nubes: Did you specifically choose the breed of dog knowing that he would go along with it?

Peter: Yes, of course I’ve also watched a few videos of people flying with big dogs. If you have a German shepherd or something like that, then you need a different wing, it’s like a tandem. If the dog weighs 10 kilos or 15 kilos or even more, you need a different wing size above that. My dog now weighs 6 kilos, which is just fine with the same glider. I can hold him on my legs. You have to put the big dog on at the bottom, I think that’s better. I don’t know if all dogs are so adventurous, but the breed definitely is.

Ad Nubes: The dog enjoys it too?

Peter: Yes, he was a bit scared the first time. He always put his head between my legs and didn’t look down. But now he’s been looking down and watching the birds for a year and I think he enjoys it.

Ad Nubes: Is he wearing goggles against the draught?

Peter: I’ve already tried it, he wipes it off. Cold is a big problem, if you want to fly with the dog you have to wrap it up, wrap it up properly.

Ad Nubes: I must confess, I’ve been watching your videos for a long time. I only realised later that the H + F, the mathematical “and”, is supposed to symbolise the Swiss flag.

Peter: Yes, it’s a gimmick, even with the colour.

Ad Nubes: I didn’t notice that at first, it looks like the Swiss flag.

Peter: I’m not a patriot, but I think Switzerland is a great place to hike and fly.

Ad Nubes: You’re originally Swiss, aren’t you?

Peter: I’m already Swiss, yes.

Ad Nubes: And you’ve always lived in Zurich?

Peter: No, I was born in Basel.

Ad Nubes: Your cap is very striking. Your Hike and Fly cap, the red and white one with the logo on the front. Did you have it specially made for you?

Peter: Yes, I have various caps. I also have one for the Engelberg Cup. I’ve already done that for the videos because I think it has a recognisable effect and nowadays everything has to be branded. You must have a logo for your blog.

Ad Nubes: Yes, I have, but I haven’t bought a hat yet, I might have to do that.

Peter: Why don’t you do it?

Ad Nubes: Where can you have them made?

Peter: Everywhere on Ebay or you can also use AliExpress or something like that. You can have it done in China, it’s very easy.

Ad Nubes: Do you also do bivouac flying?

Peter: No, I have friends who are into it and I have a lot of respect for it. But it’s a bit too hard for me, I have to say. Maybe I’m already too old. I think it’s a great thing, you can probably amplify the experience of nature that we had at the beginning by a factor of x. I have to say, I’m a credit card flyer myself when it comes to multi-day hike and fly trips, I think it’s great. I usually spend 4 or 5 days in summer travelling through Switzerland with a friend, each day in a different place, but then not with a tent, but with a credit card.

Ad Nubes: Land somewhere in the valley and spend the night.

Peter: Yes, exactly. What I find really great are the multi-day hike and fly races, where you sometimes spend the night in SAC huts. Do you know what SAC huts are? They are mountain huts run by the Swiss Alpine Club, there are lots of them. Some races, for example Vercofly or the Eiger Tour, are quite centred around these huts, where you simply fly as long as you can, spend the night in the nearest mountain hut and start again at a nice altitude in the morning. I think that’s really great, you have the romance of a mountain hut and can sit together in the evening and chat. I don’t have the equipment for that either, you need a lot of storage space.

Ad Nubes: I have the equipment, but only a tent and mattress. I would probably spend the night somewhere down in the valley and then take the mountain railway up the next day. To be honest, I’m a self-confessed hot shower enthusiast and can hardly imagine landing somewhere in the mountains, bathing in a cold mountain lake and washing myself – that wouldn’t be my thing.

Peter: Yes.

YouTube

Ad Nubes: I became aware of you through your YouTube videos, which I really liked. The layout is always exactly the same, the structure always starts with “Hi Hike and Fly Pilots, welcome whats up”. I think that’s really great of you. The first 4 videos had a slightly different structure, but then at some point you decided on this slogan and this structure. Why do you have such a fixed pattern?

Peter: Yes, it just convinces me, I actually want to do 2 things with the videos. On the one hand, I want to convey knowledge about how to get there, where you can go up, where you can start. In other words, real know-how about how the tour works and, on the other hand, I want to convey the atmosphere. The music is also very important. I speak first and then I’m quiet and then I kind of let the pictures speak and the music and these two things are actually very important to me. That you have practical information on the one hand, but also that you feel like doing something. And that you can also immerse yourself a little in the atmosphere. And I think that’s worked well, it’s just worked out that way.

Ad Nubes: Your English with the Swiss accent sounds nice.

Peter: Yes, there’s nothing you can do.

Ad Nubes: Why do you make your videos in English?

Peter: Yes, that was such a decision, you know, Switzerland is multilingual and I didn’t really want to exclude the Romansh and the Ticino people, they usually speak English better than German and we also have experts who work in Switzerland and that’s why I thought English. The German-speaking Swiss generally understand enough English to be able to understand such simple things.

Ad Nubes: Do you read your lyrics off the teleprompter or do you really do it from your head?

Peter: I have some information on my mobile phone, especially the numbers, which I find hard to remember. I then edit the stuff together, if I make a mistake, then I cut it. It’s a lot of work, but it also makes the video nice when everything comes out of one flow.

Ad Nubes: How much work does it take to make a video?

Peter: Huge actually. I always try to keep a video under 4 minutes, in my opinion people don’t have time for longer, but for a 4-minute video. I’m a perfectionist and I really want every cut to be right and the music to be right. I already have a few hours, maybe 8 hours or so for 4 minutes of video, a lot of work.

Ad Nubes: There really is so much work involved, it’s amazing. I wouldn’t have thought so.

Peter: Yes, if you include the music, I make it myself. The music is mine and that takes time.

Ad Nubes: What I also liked are your two how to videos, one with flying with the dog and the other about not flying into any ropes.

Peter: That’s special in Switzerland, because there are valleys where you can hardly see the tangle of cables.

Ad Nubes: Another video that stands out is the one from Halloween.

Peter: I would actually like to do more things like that, it also loosens things up a bit.

Ad Nubes: I liked it very much.

Peter: Thank you.

Livetracking Live Ranking App

Ad Nubes: You are developing a live tracking live ranking app. Where did you get the idea?

Peter: It was actually born out of necessity, I started with the Engelberg Cup, my own race, and back then there was simply nothing sensible and to be honest, I don’t think there is anything sensible even today. So I just thought boldly, I’ll do something myself, because I’m also fascinated by technology. And I love programming. I started with it, smaller at first, and then I got some support from the SHV, the Swiss Hang Gliding Association, which also encouraged me to continue, and then the app for Iphone for IOS was added. It grew step by step. It actually developed from my own needs so that I can support other races with it and I also enjoy it. I’m also involved in other races and fly myself, but I also take care of the technology, and I think that’s great and gives me the opportunity to support the community a bit with a tool that’s really simple and still fun and informative. That was the motivation.

Ad Nubes: I think you list this, but I’ll ask anyway, how many competitions use the app?

Peter: Oh yes, I’d have to have a quick look on the website. Another one has just been added in Slovenia. In 2025 there will probably be around 5 to 6 races using it, and I think there will be a few more in the future. The system has also improved significantly.

Ad Nubes: Was it financially worthwhile for you to develop the app?

Peter: Yes, not really, it’s not that technically trivial. It takes a lot of time to programme the apps for different systems. I like doing it, but I think if I were to convert that into an hourly wage, it wouldn’t add up to much.

Ad Nubes: Are you a professional programmer?

Peter: No, I’m actually a psychologist by profession and now work in the Canton of Zurich’s Department of Health, so it’s actually something completely different. Well, I’m trying to drive forward digitalisation in the healthcare sector, which is more at a project management level and not at a programming level. I’m really more of a hobby developer, I taught myself, but I’ve always really enjoyed doing it and recently AI has been helping me a bit more. It’s getting easier and easier.

Engelberg Cup

Ad Nubes: Let’s move on to the Engelberg Cup. How did you come up with the idea for this competition?

Peter: That was my fascination for these competitions, it really grabbed me. I just told you that the first one was in Frutigen and then I actually wanted to experience all the competitions that exist in Switzerland and I think I almost did. I thought they were all great and back then it was still a huge run and many were fully booked, so I thought I’d organise my own with a few friends. It wasn’t that easy, at first I wanted to organise something in Davos and somehow it didn’t work out, the circumstances were difficult. Then someone said, hey, why don’t you do it in the Engelberg Valley and now my heart beats for the Engelberg Valley, it’s a beautiful place.

Ad Nubes: Is that far away from you or is it near Zurich?

Peter: Yes, you know, everything is close by in Switzerland. I’ve got an hour and a half, I’m in the Engelberg valley by train, which is just south of Lucerne. I can be in Lucerne in an hour.

Ad Nubes: Did you develop that together, with Ramona, Martin, Dani and you? Or was it developed based on your ideas?

Peter: They joined later. I simply realised that it was important to me that we could do this together. I live in Zurich and that’s not the same as the people who actually live in the valley. The other three really do live in Engelberg and Wolfenschiessen. That’s important for the connection with the local farmers, businesses and hotels. And that’s a good combination. I’m still the one who does the most for this cup, but they help me a lot with local networking.

Ad Nubes: Can you explain what the task of the race is?

Peter: We did a score race on the last few runs. The most important thing are the turnpoints, which are like these cylinders that are somewhere in the area. They have different diameters, some of which you can fly through and some of which you have to reach on the ground. And then there are essentially two race principles, one is the score race, which means you simply get a point for every turnpoint you make. And you can organise the task as you wish, so you can skip one or organise the order according to your taste or strategy, or perhaps it’s better to say, you can do it in any order. The other form is called Race to go, where the order is prescribed.

This year will probably be the first time we do a race to go, i.e. with a prescribed order. Previously, it was always free. Most races, even the well-known ones like the Red Bull X-Alps, are essentially a race to go with a predetermined order. We’re doing it that way now too.

Ad Nubes: I’ve seen that the race is already fully booked. When did it become so popular?

Peter: It’s very popular. I think we’re one of the most popular races in Switzerland. How did that come about? I don’t know, I think we’re doing something right, I think we try to be really open and come up with something that’s fun for everyone. I also think the Engelberg valley is really beautiful. I think the technology, which simply works smoothly, also plays its part and we are also relatively inexpensive. Because we do a lot ourselves, we don’t have to charge so much. We are not profit-orientated. I have also endeavoured to have people like Chrigel Maurer on board, for example. I called him up and said, are you still coming, wouldn’t it be nice? Of course, these are also things that work and then other people come too.

Ad Nubes: How much is the entry fee?

Peter: The entry fee is 70 francs, but that includes dinner, T-shirt and snacks. So you get your money’s worth.

Ad Nubes: How much work is involved in the whole organisation, that sounds very time-consuming?

Peter: Yes, especially in the first few years, until you have all that, until you have the website and also my own live tracking, but also the organisation with the people on site or you have to talk to a lot of people. Creating certain safety concepts and things like that, that’s a lot of work that becomes easier when you do it two, three or four years in a row.

Ad Nubes: You are responsible if something goes wrong in the competition. You have a disclaimer, but you probably can’t completely talk your way out of it if something should happen?

Peter: Yeah, that signature is not that essential. I mean, what you simply mustn’t do is expect people to do something that is negligent. Of course, everyone has to decide for themselves, but you shouldn’t, for example, encourage someone to take off when it’s cloudy, visibility is poor or there’s a foehn. You simply mustn’t do that, otherwise you can have a sheet of paper signed for a long time and you’ll still get stuck in.

Ad Nubes: Have you had any cancellations or have the competitions always taken place so far?

Peter: We would actually already be in the fourth round now. We had to cancel the first edition because of the rain.

Ad Nubes: The first of all.

Peter: Yes, that was a pity.

Ad Nubes: Now the fourth edition is taking place?

Peter: No, it’s now the third one that’s taking place. We would have already had one in 2021.

Ad Nubes: You organised an event in the coronavirus year of all years?

Peter: Yes, actually, that was also difficult.

Ad Nubes: The regulations were not so strict in Switzerland?

Peter: But there were requirements. Of course, we had to wear masks and all that, but it was less strict than in Germany. It was possible in the summer.

Ad Nubes: Most of the participants are Swiss. I have seen that Germans also want to take part.

Peter: A few years have come a long way, which of course makes us happy.

Ad Nubes: Which other countries are taking part?

Peter: Well, we’ve already had someone from France, we’ve already had someone from Belgium, and probably someone from Belgium again this year. But most of the people are from Switzerland and many are from the region. But what I’m particularly pleased about is that there are always a few from French-speaking Switzerland. We also make an effort for them, we do everything in two or even three languages so that nobody is excluded and understands everything, including the briefings, and so we do it in several languages.

Ad Nubes: You’ve already briefly mentioned Chrigel. How were you able to convince him to take part?

Peter: Chrigel is an incredibly open person, he said it’s great that there’s something new, I’ll come. He always supported it, thought it was great and I offered him the chance to take part again every year. Of course, I offered him a free starting place and he was always happy to accept. This year, he might even be more actively involved, with live streaming or doing an interview. I think he also enjoys the fact that we are experimenting and developing.

Ad Nubes: Is he really as down-to-earth as he generally presents himself at lectures? Is he really that relaxed?

Peter: Yes, I don’t think I know him very well, but everything I’ve experienced so far, I’ve also heard him give talks, of course, and he’s a really positive person and very sociable and uncomplicated.

Ad Nubes: No airs and graces yet?

Peter: No, really not.

Ad Nubes: How are the finances going? I’ve seen that you have sponsors.

Peter: Yes, it’s still a bit tricky. It’s actually small amounts that we get. I understand that, the paragliding business in particular is not a business where you make huge turnovers. If a flying school gives us a few hundred francs, then of course that’s a lot of money for them. We really appreciate it, but it’s not like we’re swimming in sponsorship money.

Ad Nubes: But not a subsidised business for you either?

Peter: No, I’m not involved, we go out for a nice meal with the OC (organising committee, editor’s note) after the race, but it’s not a profit-making business.

Ad Nubes: What can you win in the competition?

Peter: Various sponsors offer paraglider checks and trim checks. We’re happy to do that, but we also give the winners a bit of cash. Some people don’t even need that, Chrigel doesn’t need to do that, I think he can manage that too. We just try to make sure that everyone gets a prize that they enjoy. But we can’t pay the really big prize money like at Wimbledon.

Other competitions

Ad Nubes: How much competition do you take part in over the year?

Peter: That’s maybe five or six. I don’t have that much time, I’d prefer to be everywhere, but I have other commitments. I might manage five or six. This year I’m doing the Eiger Tour again and the Jura Hike and Fly, which is a multi-day tour. That’s also nice, where you can really immerse yourself in this adventure for three to four days.

Ad Nubes: I have a list of competitions here. I think you’re taking part in all of them, I’ll just read them out and maybe you can say something about the competitions, first of all there’s the Hike and Fly Swiss Championchip.

Peter: That’s the Swiss Championships, where I also do the live tracking and have very good connections to the people, it takes place in the canton of Obwalden, this year again over three days. It’s a great thing, there’s also a lot of fun. A competition that I can only recommend.

Ad Nubes: Are you taking part?

Peter: I’m doing the technique, I’ll probably fly a bit and then take part in the fun competition, but I can’t take part in the actual Swiss Championships because firstly I’m not good enough and secondly I’m too busy to make sure everything works out with the ranking.

Clarified afterwards: A fun competition is a term used by the organisers of the Swiss Hike and Fly Championships. The actual Swiss HnF Championship lasts 3 days (Friday to Sunday). On Saturday – parallel to the 2nd race day of the Swiss Championship – this fun competition takes place. This has an easier task and is intended for beginners to intermediate pilots.

Ad Nubes: Then there’s a funny name here, Rollibock Trophy.

Peter: Yes, you must have done it once. It’s in the deepest part of Valais and a really rustic thing, it’s also very easy, you go up the slopes, they’re beautiful mountains, towards the Aletsch glacier and you fly back down again. It’s not a big deal with thermal flying. There are hike and fly competitions that are more focussed on physical fitness. Climbing up, flying down and then climbing up again and so on. It’s just a wonderful competition, they’re wonderful people and they always have a party afterwards. They have a band at the landing site and a barbecue, which is something really nice.

Ad Nubes: Where does the funny name Rollibock come from?

Peter: That’s a legend. It’s a legendary animal, the Rollibock, a mixture of a goat and a human that apparently lives in those glacier caves up there in Valais. There are also a few films that have been made about it that you can watch. The trophy is a carved legendary figure, which is then presented.

Ad Nubes: Vercofly, Hike n Fly Contest.

Peter: Yes, Vercofly is perhaps one of the oldest, I think it’s been around for 14 or 15 years. It’s a three- or four-day competition. You fly up to the mountain huts, which is incredibly beautiful. It was my favourite hike and fly for a long time, more challenging due to the high alpine setting, but beautiful, you fly over the glaciers. Unfortunately, I think the OK is in a bit of a crisis, I don’t know how much longer they’ll be doing it, it would be a shame if they stopped.

Ad Nubes: Then I have the Trail Fly Lenk here.

Peter: Yes, this is also a classic in the Bernese Oberland. It’s a very nice two-day competition with a wonderful mountain backdrop. They have a wonderful village, the cooking is marvellous in the evening, also suitable for beginners. Incidentally, it also has a beginners’ category.

Ad Nubes: Then, that sounds familiar, the Eiger tour, I’ve heard that before.

Peter: Yes, it’s better known. Some of the people come from abroad, it’s a bit more challenging, similar to Verco Fly basically. You do a parkour and usually go all the way down to Valais, even for three days. It’s a pretty rugged area, but it’s wonderful.

Ad Nubes: Of all the competitions you’ve taken part in, what’s your favourite? Do you have a favourite?

Peter: For a long time it was definitely the Vercofly, because it’s just so scenically beautiful. But you have to experience the Rollibock Trophy, it’s something really great. You can also take it easy and only do half of it.

Ad Nubes: What is particularly suitable for newcomers to the competition?

Peter: I’ve already mentioned the Rollibock Trophy, which is very good, then there’s something similar in the Gruyère region, you know it from cheese, it’s the Milizköpf, which works in a similar way, it’s very easy to fly, you just go up the mountains and then fly down, it’s a very nice competition. There’s also one in the Alpstein, near Sankt Gallen, where you can do it as a group of three. It’s also appealing to do it with friends, it’s also very easy to fly. I’m taking part in a hike and fly in Montreux for the first time this year. There’s one in Verbier in the French-speaking part of Switzerland. I would say just try it out and above all don’t have too much respect for it, because you don’t have to stand on the podium. It’s also very important not to let yourself be pushed by the competition, sometimes it can be dangerous. If you go beyond your own limits, I’ve unfortunately already experienced first-hand that it’s not good. You just have to take that to heart, but no one is forcing you or you can always land somewhere and walk the rest.

Ad Nubes: I wouldn’t know that there are so many hike and fly competitions here in Germany or Austria. It’s amazing what competitions you have.

Peter: Yes, I keep coming across new, very small ones. There’s a Ticino championship in the small canton of Ticino, they organise three races in the Lugano region. It’s really fantastic and sometimes they do it very simply, two tables and a tent and then it’s off.

Miscellaneous

Ad Nubes: You just hinted at it, you’ve had an accident before?

Peter: Yes, I’ve had an accident before, where I actually started into a leeward situation during the race, which I underestimated, and then I didn’t get away properly and crashed into a stable, which was really dangerous. That’s part of it, that’s the downside of this great sport, that it can be dangerous and that you really have to be careful with the risk margin that you factor in, especially when you get into racing fever.

Ad Nubes: Nothing worse has happened?

Peter: I had to have stitches in my lip and my tooth broke and my umbrella was ruined. I was lucky in my misfortune. Fortunately, I haven’t had a really serious accident yet, I hope you haven’t either.

Ad Nubes: No, I only twisted my ankle twice, but otherwise nothing bad happened. But luck is also part of it, I’ve spun the wrong way round before and just managed to abort the start. I think a bit of luck is also part of it. Do you do acro?

Peter: No, I don’t do that. I’m too scared. And I don’t have the equipment either. I do safety training from time to time. But I don’t do acro, but I have a lot of respect for the people who do it and I think you learn an incredible amount about your glider when you do it. It’s a great thing.

Ad Nubes: Yes, I don’t do it either, but I think it’s great. People who control their glider like that.

Peter: Yes, madness.

Ad Nubes: What tools do you use to check the weather?

Peter: We have a pretty good Meteo Switzerland. It’s a pretty good forecast, basically the general weather forecast from the federal government. It’s very precise, but of course I also use special weather apps. I use burnair and I use Windy and also Paraglidable. I always look at different models, and the Swiss Association, the SHV, has a website with very good forecasts. I don’t fly abroad much, but if you fly somewhere exotic, you realise that the wind forecasts are not as accurate as they are here in Central Europe.

Ad Nubes: For the thermal forecast do you use burnair?

Peter: So far I’ve mainly been using burnair.

Ad Nubes: We’re also slowly coming to the end of the interview. Do you have any other hobbies or do you just hike and fly?

Peter: I have a lot of hobbies. I still make music, I play bass guitar and of course I do a lot of sport. I also do other sports, I go ski touring, I go mountaineering, I play badminton. I’ve already mentioned jogging briefly. Sport is an important part of my life.

Ad Nubes: So do you have any goals, plans for the future, for this year or for the next few years?

Peter: Yes, I already have ideas. I don’t know if you know the XRedRocks? That’s a hike and fly race in America, in the canyons in Utah, or the X-Lakes. I would love to go there and get a taste of the air. Or Slovenia, I have contacts with people who organise hike and fly races there.

Ad Nubes: So far you’ve mainly focussed on Switzerland. I had a look on XContest, you upload flights, almost everything is from Switzerland, a little bit from Austria.

Peter: That’s by chance.

Ad Nubes: Why by chance?

Peter: I don’t upload all flights, I already fly a lot in Switzerland.

Ad Nubes: Have you taken part in competitions outside Switzerland?

Peter: No, not yet. So far I’ve concentrated on these and I also make a calendar of the hike and fly races, but only in Switzerland. Otherwise the research would be too time-consuming for me. I’ve also had the idea of perhaps organising a European hike and fly championship, which would perhaps give hike and fly more attention. These are the dreams I have. I also want to do a big mountain tour every year with the paraglider, with glaciers and things like that. These are things that inspire me.

Ad Nubes: Thank you for the interview, it was very interesting.

Peter: Yes, thank you for your interest.

Note: The conversation has been edited for clarity and differs from the spoken dialogue.

Similar to Peter, for whom the Engelberg Cup is a matter close to his heart, it’s the same for me with the blog Ad Nubes. The blog is not profit-orientated, but I still have my costs, so I would appreciate a small donation from you. You can find out how to do this in the Support menu.

Further links

Peter’s YouTube channel

Live Tracking Live Ranking

Engelberg Cup, Hike n Fly competition

Peters Hike and Fly flying areas in Switzerland

SAC huts in Switzerland