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Ad Nubes: Hello Ben, why are you doing this to yourself, the bivouacking? The average pilot is happy if he somehow has a shower in the evening, can lie in a warm bed and so on and so forth. What makes bivouac flying special for you?

Ben: These adventures, the uncertainty of not really knowing where you’re going to sleep the next night and a good overall adventure always involves a bit of suffering. Uncertainties and then often some great unexpected experiences or adventures arise from this.

Ad Nubes: What do you mean by suffering?

Ben: Yes, it’s definitely exhausting if you aspire to be largely self-sufficient when travelling. I used to really set off and tell myself that from the moment I got off the train or bus, I wouldn’t use any public transport or aids and would do everything using only the power of the sun and my own muscles. In the meantime, however, I’ve got a bit older, my back hurts more often and so I occasionally treat myself to the first ascent on the mountain railway. Most of the time, however, I end up somewhere in the wilderness where there is no possibility of continuing by cable car. I usually try to end up in beautiful, remote corners, and then it just makes sense to make the ascent on foot again.

Ad Nubes: What importance does flying have for you. Do you have any other hobbies? You just told me that your girlfriends climb.

Ben: Slacklining used to be my greatest passion for about five to six years, maybe even almost seven years. But then my shoulder started to dislocate again and again – a total of eleven times in two years. Once it became unstable, it became really uncomfortable and eventually I had to have an operation two years later. After that, flying became my main hobby and I withdrew more and more from slacklining. The scene has also changed a bit. Flying has been my main passion for about ten years now.

Ad Nubes: When did you start flying?

Ben: In 2013 I was on the practice slope for the first time in October and then the next year in the summer I had my licence in my pocket.

Ad Nubes: Good, that went relatively quickly, that was the same for me. So I then went straight on to do a B licence, probably the same for you?

Ben: I took two years to get my licence. I had already flown my first hundreds when I got my B licence.

Ad Nubes: Quiet, nobody wants to hear that. You told me you’re, I don’t know exactly what your profession is, a landscape gardener or something like that.

Ben: Tree surgeon.

Ad Nubes: You also have to be physically fit. You have to be familiar with harnesses and things like that. Does your profession help you in flying?

Ben: I think a certain level of basic fitness is always helpful when flying. When it gets serious, you get really shaken up there, and it doesn’t hurt to have some body tension – especially if you want to stay in the air for 6, 7 hours or longer. Apart from that, however, it doesn’t really matter. You can keep fit in any job, and I would say that fitness is not the decisive criterion.

Ad Nubes: It often happens that we end up in a tree, so knowing how to get someone out of a tree is actually quite useful, isn’t it? It’s also helpful if it happens to you or if you want to help someone else.

Ben: If I actually had a real tree landing, it probably wouldn’t be that unpleasant. I once landed half in a tree. On the Wank, after long phases with a tailwind, I finally caught a thermal, opened my canopy and the ears were in. I thought to myself that this would go away as soon as there was some pressure in the canopy. But when I started running, I just about took off and with the additional tailwind the wing turned and it was more than just the ears. I barely had any pressure in the brakes. The other option would have been to land on the front road with a strong tailwind, but the risk of breaking my legs was too great. So I opted for the trees. I flew in between two trees and came to a gentle halt about half a metre above the mountain pines. When I tried to free myself from the canopy, the canopy tore about 30 centimetres. We then repaired it with tape and flew another round.

Ad Nubes: When you make a tree landing, you should actually fly directly towards the tree and not between two trees.

Ben: Yes, that went through my mind too. The instructor’s words: “If you know it’s going to be the trees, choose the best one, preferably a conifer. Head straight for it, brake slightly and then let the glider shoot.” In this situation, I just thought that there weren’t many branches between the trunk and me and I had quite a lot of speed with the tailwind. In another situation, I would be careful to land into the tree against the wind. But with that much speed – 40 or 50 km/h, or whatever – I might be able to slow down another 10 km/h, but even 30 km/h is still too fast for me to crash into the tree trunk.

Ad Nubes: How did you get into bivouac flying?

Ben: I can’t remember exactly whether I had the idea in my head from the very beginning of putting everything you need in a rucksack and travelling in the mountains for several days. It’s just wonderful to experience that. Maybe I also heard about others doing it at flying school. But I actually realised from the start that that was exactly what I wanted to do. I immediately wanted to go as far out as possible, away from civilisation, fly all day and be in the mountains – and experience it again and again.

Ad Nubes: Do you even do normal cross-country flying or hike and fly?

Ben: Yes, exactly. I do hike and fly from time to time in summer, but when it’s the cross-country season, I’m often too lazy and prefer to sleep an extra hour or two instead of climbing the mountain on foot. For me, hike and fly is more popular in autumn and spring because it’s often too hot in summer. Normal cross-country flying is definitely still a big issue for me. I do this more often than bivouac tours, but I still usually manage one or two larger bivouac tours a year.

Ad Nubes: But you never upload them to a portal. I haven’t seen any of your flights yet.

Ben: No, I refused to upload my flights to the DHV-XC and XContest. The reason for this is that I used to fly without Uri and couldn’t relax because I couldn’t pee in the air. So I always top-landed when I had to, but this meant that I always had two flights. It was kind of frustrating to upload more flights that would then be split into two or three short ones. That’s why I found the XCR server from XC Revolution quite nice, because they actually allow you to combine such flights. It doesn’t make it any easier to fly a long distance just because you land in between – on the contrary, it usually costs time and makes it more difficult to cover long distances. Especially when it’s really turbulent at lunchtime, top landing is a challenge and not entirely without danger. But it is certainly good training for all the bivouac tours where I now often top land. Ultimately, it was never about the competition. I just fly because I want to fly nice lines and enjoy flying. The XCR server now offers me a nice opportunity to give interested people a link to my flights and show them: “Look, I flew that, those are nice lines.”

Ad Nubes: Are you still flying without Uri?

Ben: I’ve now made the breakthrough, and that’s down to the eyelets. I used to lead the tube out via the trouser leg, which meant that I was always sitting crooked in the harness and had to exert an enormous amount of body tension to fly straight ahead. I simply couldn’t relax in the slightest turbulence. Now I have attached eyelets on both sides of the harness and passed the tube through them. Since then I’ve been super relaxed – it’s a completely different world.

Ad Nubes: You lead it out somewhere next to your trousers.

Ben: Yes, I just lead it out at the top of the trousers and then through the eyelets on the side, you can buy a suitable one on eBay.

Ad Nubes: Okay, I still do it on my leg, but I’ll have to see if that’s a better alternative.

Ben: I found flying much more relaxed, but well, I also fly the Kolibri, which has two leg loops. Now I have a harness without these leg loops, which is probably much more stable if you let one leg hang out. With the Kolibri, I could never really relax because I had to keep my body tension in order to stay on course.

Ad Nubes: Well, when I’m standing on the ground, it’s no problem to run. But when I’m in the air and standing up, it doesn’t work. So that could be a similar problem for me.

Ben: It was exactly the same for me, that little bit of body tension and it was already blocked.

Ad Nubes: What skills do you need as a pilot to fly bivouac, what should you be able to do as a minimum requirement?

Ben: It really depends on the goals you set yourself. Do I really just want to fly a few kilometres down the Pinzgau somewhere and maybe hitchhike or walk to the next campsite and then take the mountain railway up and fly back again the next day or do I really want to go a bit further or do I really want to go to the wild corners of the Alps?

Ad Nubes: Let’s say the things you do, the really wild things.

Ben: Yes, for the more challenging corners of the Alps, such as main ridge crossings and similar undertakings, you should really feel comfortable under your wing. This is especially true on days when the going is good and the air is very turbulent. At some point you usually have to fight your way through unpleasant conditions, such as very turbulent air. It is important to be familiar with large chutes and not to feel stressed by them, as well as narrow landing sites and turbulent conditions when landing. It is also advisable to have practised top landings. Nevertheless, if in doubt, it is better to land in the valley rather than forcing a top landing.

Ad Nubes: Have you had this case more than once?

Ben: That I thought to myself, I’ve forced this now?

Ad Nubes: Well, or let’s say you’d rather end up in the valley than up on the mountain somewhere.

Ben: Yes, there were times when I tried to get down somewhere. I realised, no, forget it, it’s far too turbulent here, it’s far too extreme and I flew into the valley.

Ad Nubes: There are exactly the opposite cases, that the valley winds are too strong and that you are more likely to land on top, that this is the safe option.

Ben: I have an anecdote from my first bike tour to Merano. Together with Nikolas Manthos, we took off from Laber and actually made it to Merano on the second day. I saw where we landed somewhere that Niko was flying into a full headwind with his fast glider and had no forward flight at all. I thought to myself that it would be smarter to use the height and land further up the mountain pastures on the slopes. If in doubt, I could wait there until the wind dies down in the evening instead of landing below, where there are hardly any landing options and almost everything is covered by apple orchards.

Ad Nubes: The area above Merano is really quite hairy.

Ben: Exactly.

Ad Nubes: I listened to the podcast with Marcel Dürr again in preparation and he also said that Merano in particular is a difficult environment to land in.

Ben: Yes, I really thought I was particularly clever. I wanted to land at the top where it seemed perfect, hardly any wind and everything was wonderful. I flew two loops over my landing spot, and on the second loop I was low enough to see: Oh crap, there’s a cable, another cable, and another. Now it was getting really tight, but I managed to get down somehow in one corner. I flew on, third cable, damn, that won’t work either, look up, fourth or fifth cable – it got trickier and trickier.

Ad Nubes: Italy is known for its criss-crossing cables.

Ben: And in South Tyrol, it’s quite possible that cables are led up from such farms through steep, rocky mountain forests to pull out trees or something similar. I was very lucky to fit under one of these cables. When I looked up, I suddenly saw another cable – and the next moment I was already underneath it.

Ad Nubes: Was it an overhead line or something isolated?

Ben: That was a material ropeway.

Ad Nubes: Oh, okay, yes, they are particularly nasty because they have a large wingspan.

Ben: Yes, exactly, no markings. And then I landed in the valley after all, it worked.

Ad Nubes: Let’s talk about route planning. Do you plan your route beforehand or do you just say, as in the example, I’m flying from Laber towards Merano, and in between I’ll let it all come to me.

Ben: I always make a rough route plan, depending on which corner of the Alps I’m travelling in. I know the Bavarian Alps up to the Allgäu, further up to the Inntal, Ötztal, Rhine, Stubaital down to the Großglockner and back to Pinzgau to the Steinerberge well by now. However, if I had to navigate through side valleys and passes at low altitude, I would certainly look at the map again. But as long as I’m flying high enough and have an overview of the subsystems, I can find my way around. If I wanted to fly new routes in low cloud base or similar conditions, I would definitely have a good look at the route beforehand. I am particularly interested in new areas such as the Upper Engadine, a flight to Lake Como or further west into Switzerland over the Oberalp Pass. In such cases, I would take a close look at my options on the map beforehand and make various plans for different weather scenarios.

Ad Nubes: Are you as conscientious as Marcel Dürr? He really does make waypoints, he even said that he had the landable points in Merano displayed as waypoints on XC Track. Do you do this as intensively and conscientiously?

Ben: No, I’m not that conscientious about it. I tend to let things come to me and look for adventure. However, I don’t fly as well as Marcel. When we’re flying together, he has a very good instinct for finding a better line – sometimes it’s enough to fly just 50 metres further to the right or left. He usually leaves me behind. I’m more of a freestyler and have realised that I sometimes approach things too cerebrally, concentrating too much on thermal maps, KK7 hotspots and the like. Especially on days that don’t correspond to typical flying conditions, this information often doesn’t work. If there is a lot of wind, the cloud base is very low or there are large shadows, it is often better to fly by feel. For me, this often works better, even if it is perhaps not always the most direct route.

Ad Nubes: Do you use the XC-Tracer or do you have another flight instrument?

Ben: Yes, I use the XC Tracer and actually use it exclusively. I usually have my mobile phone with me, but I only use it for offline maps, especially OSMAnd Maps. In my opinion, these are absolutely brilliant offline maps, even if the menu navigation is quite complicated and it takes some effort to customise the map so that it works really well. You used to have to buy the add-ons individually, but now I think you have to buy a complete package as a subscription. That’s a bit unfavourable, but then you get contour lines, topographical relief and a simple download function for large areas. A cool feature is that you can filter by different things like shelters, natural water sources, drinking water sources, refuges – both managed and unmanaged. You can zoom out on the map and plan your route accordingly, for example to make sure you pass water points or find shelter in the event of an impending thunderstorm. If you run out of food, it also helps to find a managed refuge.

Ad Nubes: Is that what you do, look at it during the flight?

Ben: Not usually. I usually do it after landing, with the flight preparation for the next day.

Ad Nubes: Do you have a collection of routes that say beginners or even advanced climbers could recommend?

Ben: I wouldn’t recommend any specific routes because every day is different. Instead, I would rather recommend regions. Everything south of Kössen is relatively friendly terrain with lots of meadow slopes and numerous take-off and landing options. The mountains there are not so extremely wild, rugged and steep, but the landscape is more hilly. I would say that the whole region, including Pinzgau, is well suited, apart from perhaps the area south of the Pinzgau valley, where the mountains become wilder towards the main Alpine ridge. But overall, this area is a good choice, and the Allgäu is also a good option.

Ad Nubes: Slovenia is certainly not bad either.

Ben: Slovenia goes really well. Bassano is great and you have all sorts of great open landing options up on the mountain. These are great places to get your first bivouac experience.

Ad Nubes: Okay, how do you manage the weather? Are you flexible enough at work to be able to take time off at short notice?

Ben: I don’t plan my work at short notice. As a freelancer, I decide for myself when I want to work and I usually always find jobs. In the last few years, I’ve done it this way: I let my customers know in spring or early summer that they don’t need to make any more enquiries for the time being and shouldn’t be surprised if they don’t hear from me for a few months. I then get in touch again when I need money and feel like working. I usually work a few days a month anyway, for example when the weather is bad and I ask if anyone needs my services. Sometimes there’s less to do in the summer, especially in tree care, but if it suits, I also work in the summer. However, if there are enough other projects, I also treat myself to some time off.

Ad Nubes: Good attitude to life. How do you find out that the weather could be suitable for a bivouac tour in the next few days, what tools do you use?

Ben: I used to use Austro Control, but since it’s unfortunately no longer available in this form, I’ve switched to XCTherm. I don’t think I’m the only pilot who has had the experience this year that often days that are forecast to be perfect three, four or five days in advance-no wind, great thermals, everything ideal-the closer they get, the worse the weather actually gets. In the end, you end up in the rain or with other unexpected conditions. That’s particularly annoying, even for me, who has hardly any appointments or commitments. For people who are dependent on firm commitments, it’s often difficult to understand when I say that the weather forecast is currently good, but will probably get worse and then I spontaneously have time. This year I had the feeling that the weather forecasts were particularly unreliable. There were a few bivouac tours where we set off with high expectations and were then disappointed by the actual conditions.

Ad Nubes: I also use XCTerm. I think it’s great, especially because it’s all so nicely visualised. It gives you a quick overview, but of course they are also dependent on DWD, they provide the data and if it’s totally wrong, it’s not their fault.

Ben: I was really wondering if it makes a difference that they no longer include weather station measurement data in their model. They claim it doesn’t make a difference, but I’m not so sure. More data is always better, isn’t it? If you suddenly stop using actual live data from weather stations and just use projections instead, even if they are updated more frequently, that could have an impact.

Ad Nubes: Ok, I didn’t know that either.

Ben: They even say so on their website.

Ad Nubes: I thought you’d need some other tool like Windy, which goes even further into the future in the forecast, but if you’re that flexible you don’t need it.

Ben: Of course I also use Windy, but not to predict a good flying day far in advance. It’s been far too inaccurate for that in recent years. At some point you just have to make a decision: Am I going to fly or not? Then you have to deal with the conditions or not. Since I stopped having high expectations for the day, I’ve been doing better. I simply decide whether I’m going to fly or not, and once the decision has been made, I try to make the best of it.

Ad Nubes: The subject of airspace. That’s not such a big issue in the Alps, but it still has to be taken into account. How do you deal with it or how do you inform yourself?

Ben: Yes, I always look at the airspace first and then the NOTAMs. I mainly use the site notaminfo.com for this because it offers a clear graphical representation and you can look at the whole country at once. That’s very practical. However, what still bothers me a little are the other tools where you have to enter a route from airport A to airport B first. You always have to think about it: The forecast can change completely, my plans can change completely en route. What if I suddenly fly in a different direction? Will I end up in a region with relevant NOTAMs? Can I fly there spontaneously if I feel like it? With these other providers, I often don’t have the opportunity to get a quick overview.

Ad Nubes: You should take a look at my blog. I wrote an article about it, i.e. notam.info and the other apps that are available, they already say in their terms and conditions that they do not provide legally binding advice. So I take a rather critical view of that.

Ben: I know. I had a look at the blog today. I’ll have another look at the Austro Control site.

Ad Nubes: Unfortunately I’ve already found that’s a bit hail on the smartphone, for Austro Control you need a good internet connection and then it works, so you just have to test.

Ben: The Swiss have solved it quite well. They have map material, everything is there somehow, but whether they really have the NOTAMs reliably published in there, I don’t really know.

Ad Nubes: NOTAMs are published worldwide on Astro Control, but I don’t know whether this is legally binding or only on Austrian territory, so you’d have to find out again. But it’s good that you’re checking the NOTAMs at all, many pilots don’t do that.

Ben: That’s important, of course, but it’s annoying if I end up somewhere and don’t have an internet connection. I always check notaminfo.com a week in advance, and that’s helpful because you can keep an eye on the week. But sometimes NOTAMs can be triggered at very short notice. If I’m really sitting on the watershed somewhere in the Upper Engadine and have no reception, I can only hope that a new NOTAM hasn’t been published overnight. I think the probability of this is low, but it can’t be completely ruled out.

Ad Nubes: But let’s get back to the airspace. How do you find out about them?

Ben: The XC Contest airspaces. There aren’t too many mistakes in there, I trust them.

Ad Nubes: I wanted to take a closer look because Georg from our club pointed out that the altitude information is a bit problematic. I don’t know how close you fly to airspaces or whether you say a large safety distance is not a problem for me.

Ben: You can go to the upper limits for larger valley jumps if the conditions allow it. Most air pressure limits are based on the QNH, i.e. the standard pressure. When flying, you also have a buffer of around 100 to 200 metres, and if you stick to the GPS altitudes, everything should be fine. However, it happened to me once in Slovenia that I was pulled into the airspace a little, at least according to the GPS limits. I flew out of the thermal and wanted to spiral down to avoid being pulled further into it. When I realised that this wasn’t really working, I went back into the spiral. Meanwhile, I remembered that two days ago I had broken a stainless steel ring on one side, so my harness was a bit banged up. This worried me because I didn’t want to crash, but the harness was already pretty worn out. I therefore decided not to spiral too much and to leave the spiral again. Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough and I was pulled up another 100 metres. Although I thought I was at the very edge of the thermal at the beginning, there was still a decent updraft from below, new clouds formed and I flew right through them. Even though it was bad luck, it was still within the QNH limits.

Ad Nubes: Safety training, because you just mentioned the steep spiral. Do you regularly attend safety training?

Ben: I attended my first safety training course last year. However, just over a year after I got my licence, I started training everything manually on my own. However, I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone – everyone should definitely do safety training. To put it in a nutshell: I was of the opinion that, apart from perhaps the full stall, you can approach many of these techniques well on your own. For example, you can practise a collapse step by step: First you pull a small ear, then a slightly larger one, until at some point you can call it a clack. You can then gradually simulate larger collapses until you finally pull down the whole riser and later add the accelerator. In this way, you can approach everything step by step. This approach worked for me personally, but it should really only be done by someone who feels absolutely confident.

Ad Nubes: Did you at least do that over water then?

Ben: No, just over land with enough height below me. But whenever I found thermals and didn’t feel like attempting a cross-country flight, I flew into the centre of the valley. If the thermals weren’t already giving me a safe workout in the form of natural collapses, I started pulling collapses myself, practising one-sided stalls, flying spiral dives and wingovers – simply to improve my control. I did that right from the start. Just over a year after my licence, there was only the full stall left, which I hadn’t trained yet. Eventually I did it over ground, but without a second rescue, which I wouldn’t recommend to anyone, but it went well.

Then I flew a B glider for a year, with which I didn’t dare to practise the full stall. But when I had my C glider, I knew that I had to be able to do it. So I travelled to Lake Garda with it at the latest and we trained on our own. We each did three or more flights where we practised about 8 to 10 full stalls per flight. I never really got the backfly right with my old glider, but last year at Lake Achensee I realised that my new D-wing, the LM7, is much more relaxed in the backfly. In the meantime, I’ve also got into stall situations in nature a few times, but everything has always been very relaxed.

Ad Nubes: In Natura even, how can that happen?

Ben: Last year I had one big collapse with the LM7, which doesn’t happen often with this wing. What had never happened before, however, was that more than one of the ears got caught when I got a 50 per cent hang-up. I was just about to soar in the lee of the Wetterstein mountains. Despite the large hangover, I was able to hold my course, but I quickly lost height and had no forward speed at all against the wind. As the ridge was fast approaching and the terrain in the lee was steep, I decided to take refuge in the lee to gain the necessary height for a stall. (The stabilo line and vigorous pumping on the side where the rope was hanging was not an option)

No sooner said than done-but unfortunately I got caught in a heavy leeward bart. With a half-open wing, I suddenly had a climb rate of up to 12 metres per second. The glider then stalled and quickly fell far behind me, even though I had the brakes fully open as soon as I flew into the updraft. When the glider then shot, it opened again, but I was no longer able to intercept the shooting. The moment it was behind me, I should perhaps have gone into the backfly position straight away. If I’d already practised that, I would have done it. Instead, I thought I’d wait until the glider was at least almost back above me before I slowed it down massively to prevent it from tearing off again. The glider probably shot into the downdraft area of the thermal at that moment. All attempts to slow the glider down didn’t help. I fell past the glider once. Fortunately, I didn’t get caught anywhere. After that, I was briefly in the backfly, rerouted and everything was fine again.

After this experience, however, I ended the flying day earlier than originally planned.

Ad nubes: Awesome. Where did you do the safety training?

Ben: At Lake Achensee.

Ad Nubes: Probably at Ecki’s, right?

Ben: Yeah no, they were others. But I can’t remember the names from Grad.

Ad Nubes: Stefan or Lukas?

Ben: Stefan I think or Lukas, it could be Lukas.

Ad Nubes: I was there too. At Lake Idro last year, it was good safety training.

Ben: Very friendly team, but I’ve decided in the safety training sessions, oh I’ll just go to Gadasee when I feel like stalling again, then I’ll do it on my own if there’s a boat in the water.

Ad Nubes: They now have our own flying school with Lukas and Stefan, but the two of them are in a good mood. We really liked the boys.

Ben: Yes, I know I’m pretty much alone here in Bavaria with my self-taught approach to paragliding safety and training, but it’s worked well for me. It doesn’t have to work for others and may not be the recommended way, but I’ve always been someone who likes to teach myself things. Right from the start, I made an intensive effort to become one with the glider and to develop a good feeling for it.

Ad Nubes: I don’t like being watched, which is why I only do safety training every 5 or 6 years. I do what you do, which is that I might go to Lake Ossiach and practise on my own.

Ben: I can highly recommend it, get in touch if you’re going. I wanted to go this year, but I didn’t have time once when the opportunity was there with friends. I’ve been putting it off ever since. But I would also like to practise a proper stable session at Lake Garda or Lake Ossiach.

Ad Nubes: OK, let’s move on to the subject of bivouac equipment. You fly a D-glider, LM 7 is a D-glider?

Ben: Exactly.

Ad Nubes: Is it advisable to fly a D-glider for bivouac tours?

Ben: I would say that you should fly the wing that you feel comfortable with and in this case I felt super comfortable with the LM 7 right from the start. I would say that as long as your own reactions match those of the wing and you can still cope with very turbulent conditions, it’s the right wing.

Ad Nubes: What kind of harness do you fly?

Ben: Until now always the Kolibri, which now has probably almost 6 or around 600 hours in it and is unfortunately very much in the process of disintegration in all corners and ends.

Ad Nubes: Ozone has had this special harness for bivouac flies for 1 or 2 years now.

Ben: Yes, the BV1. I was at the Hochries flying school today and borrowed it to try it out. There is a slightly uncomfortable crease on my lower back, which bothers me. Overall, it is probably still slightly more comfortable than the Kolibri, but I find this crease irritating. This problem doesn’t occur with the larger size of the BV1 – I sit perfectly in it. However, the belt system then reaches up to my neck, which restricts my head movements. I need to test this further and find out which harness suits me best in the future. In any case, I would like to have a bivouac harness, perhaps also a cross-country harness with a rump. Let’s see if I allow myself this luxury. So far, the Kolibri has actually been enough.

Ad Nubes: But the Kolibri is not a bivouac harness?

Ben: But the Kolibri is a real advertised bivouac harness with a lot of storage space. Before the BV1 came out, it was the only really serious bivouac harness on the market.

Ad Nubes: What electronics do you have with you when you go on your bivouac tours?

Ben: I normally only take a power bank with me for charging, as most weather windows usually only last 2 to 3 days, 4 days maximum. It’s very rare to have longer weather windows. I also usually run out of energy as I am very self-sufficient when travelling and hardly ever rely on technical aids, cable cars or similar. However, if you plan to be out and about for longer, that’s another matter. However, on a bad weather day, which you might usefully spend in a hut, you also have the opportunity to recharge the power bank.

Ad Nubes: Do you have solar cells with you?

Ben: I don’t have any solar cells with me yet. I’ve always looked around for some small, lightweight, properly processed solar cells. I haven’t come across any really useful products yet, but it’s been another year or two since I last looked around.

Ad Nubes: So you practically only have your smartphone with you, your XC Tracer, that’s it, right?

Ben: Yes, I still have a spot with me so that my girlfriend and a few other interested people can follow me.

Ad Nubes: Do you have the XC-Track running on your smartphone or not?

Ben: No, I don’t normally have it switched on. Sometimes I switch it on if I feel unsure about the airspace or confused, but it uses too much energy on bivouac tours. For day trips it probably wouldn’t be a problem with a power bank, but even then I often forget to switch it on before take-off. I prefer to fly with fewer electronics and in areas that I know. I always have my mobile phone in the cockpit, but I hardly ever use it.

Ad Nubes: OK, so only insiders can follow you.

Ben: Yes, maybe I’ll change that at some point.

Ad Nubes: A typical bivouac tour for you takes about 4 or 5 days.

Ben: Yes, 3 to 5 days or so.

Ad Nubes: What kind of laundry do you have with you?

Ben: Usually 2 to 3 changes of shirt, sometimes just 1, depending on if I’m only expecting an overnight stay Mostly a pair of long pants and one shirt of which is usually long and then I usually have a pair of thin trousers and a pair of thick trousers with me that I can combine if necessary. A down jacket, rainwear, a spare pair of socks and a towel, cap and hat.

Ad Nubes: Do you have the same food for 5 days at the beginning?

Ben: I usually manage to take food with me for 3 to 4 days, sometimes even for 5 days. In such cases, however, I have to stop off at a hut somewhere in between or, as I did recently, end up in Tolmin and replenish my supplies. I admit that I’m a bit particular about this – most people probably wouldn’t like it. But I always take good Hofpfister bread with me, preferably the walnut bread because it is a compact and dense sourdough bread. For bivouac tours, I take a quarter or half a loaf with me, depending on the length of the tour. I also pack cheese, sausage, maybe an apple, lots of nuts and a few energy bars for the journey. I sometimes eat a snack while flying, which Uli Wiesmeier recommended to me. He said that he flies much better since then because he eats something while flying.

Ad Nubes: Is there a kind of bivouac scene here in Munich, because you mentioned Ulli?

Ben: Marcel Dürer is actually the only person from the region with whom I go on really long tours. Otherwise, I don’t know many people who would be suitable. Sebastian Huber seems like a great guy, especially because he doesn’t use social media and is very stable on the road. However, he would probably hang out with me mercilessly or get bored in my company. It’s really difficult to find people in the region who want to go on tours in remote areas and have the necessary skills. Charles accompanies me from time to time and we’ve done some really nice bivouac tours together. However, these tours are rather leisurely. That’s not a bad thing, but sometimes I’m in the mood for more adventure and then he doesn’t quite keep up when I pick up the pace.

Ad Nubes: How do you do that with the water?

Ben: I always have 3 litres of water with me.

Ad Nubes: But they don’t last the 5 days.

Ben: No, that’s enough for me for a day and a half, depending on how much I walk up. When I’m travelling near the main Alpine ridge in the gneiss and granite area, water is usually not a problem as long as there is no extreme drought. There are many springs there, and if they are marked on the map, you can often find some that spring just a few metres below the ridge. Around the main Alpine ridge, especially in early summer when there are still snowfields, water is really not an issue. In the Limestone Alps, on the other hand, i.e. in areas south or north of the main Alpine ridge in the karst mountains, it is much more difficult to find water. If I’m planning a tour that doesn’t take me close to the main Alpine ridge, I sometimes take a water filter with me so that I can drink from a pond or similar water source if necessary.

Ad Nubes: I have tablets with me for emergencies, but of course you shouldn’t do that often. If I end up somewhere in a side valley and have to stay overnight, I can purify water in an emergency. Is knowledge of geology an advantage if you know what kind of mountain range it is?

Ben: Yes, because of my girlfriend’s climbing, of course you get to know a bit about rock types and experience quickly shows that it’s very difficult to find water where there are limestones, at least further up the mountain.

Ad Nubes: Do you do the same thing when climbing, that you take water from somewhere in nature?

Ben: Yes, when my girlfriend was travelling in Yosemite, they sometimes used the water that dripped from the rock, but otherwise you usually take your water with you for the day on one-day climbing tours, unless you know the place and know that there is somehow another spring further up.

Ad Nubes: How do you take care of your personal hygiene when you’re travelling for several days?

Ben: Yes, you stink, there’s no need to kid yourself. Before I hitchhike home, I usually try to jump into a stream, mountain lake or similar somewhere to wash off at least once. I also have a small bar of soap with me, but I hardly ever use it, at least not when I’m bathing in nature. I also have a small microfibre towel with me, but a tiny one really is enough

Ad Nubes: Do you have any first aid equipment with you?

Ben: Yes, I always have a first aid kit ready to hand in my harness. It contains gauze bandages, triangular towels, sterile compresses, lots of small items, some iodine, tape and adhesive plasters. Most injuries require an adhesive plaster, which I have used more often than the other items. I mainly have the kit with me in case I see that something has happened to someone else. Of course, I hope that I won’t need it myself, but you never know. I might be the first person at the scene of an accident and not being able to help because I don’t have anything with me would be almost worse for me than being injured myself.

Ad Nubes: Do you have first aid training.

Ben: Yes, because of my job I have to complete a first aid course every two years, so my knowledge is relatively fresh most of the time. However, there was a situation the other day when we set off on our tour from Ötztal railway station. There was already a group of people standing around someone who had obviously had a stroke. At that moment, I realised that my knowledge wasn’t as fresh as I thought. I wished the course had only taken place a few days ago. The others were already providing good first aid, so there wasn’t much more I could have done. Nevertheless, it definitely doesn’t hurt to refresh your knowledge from time to time.

Ad Nubes: We were talking about the tree landing earlier. Do you have any slings with you?

Ben: I have often been offered webbing slings, but in my opinion they are not always the best solution. Of course, in some cases they are useful, but actually a sling is 50% unnecessary material. It goes back and forth, which means you have a quadruple route that you don’t even use, as you have to go around an anchor point once anyway. Instead, I simply used a 6 or 7 metre cord. A 1.50 metre long sling is often not enough if you have a tree with a diameter of over one metre. You would have to literally hug the tree in order to guide the sling around it and hook yourself in securely. With deciduous trees in particular, the nearest suitable branch may be a few metres away. That’s why I have about 7 metres of cord with me. I have attached a small alpine standing carabiner to one end with a solid knot, such as a figure of eight knot or a bulink knot, which also serves as a throw weight. I can tie the other end directly into my harness. If I really get stuck in a dangerous situation, I could try throwing the carabiner around an anchor point as a throw weight and hope it comes back down. You can also shoot the rope up and wrap it around the carabiner so that it unwinds when it has fallen over the anchor point and then drops down to you. So there are techniques where you have to get creative if you find yourself in a situation like this.

Ad Nubes: Then your profession will benefit you again.

Ben: Yes, exactly. But I definitely think it makes sense to have a cord with you. And carabiners if you’re travelling in very wooded areas, or in general.

Ad Nubes: What other equipment do you have or have you already mentioned everything? How many litres does your rucksack have?

Ben: My rucksack, I have the original Kolibri from Kortel. I don’t know exactly how many litres, I would estimate around 70 to 80 litres.

Ad Nubes: How much do you have in total?

Ben: I’m usually travelling with over 20 kilos on a bike tour. Exactly, typically 24, 25, 26 kilos.

Ad Nubes: Let’s finally get down to flying. You’re somewhere in the mountain preparing for take-off. We’ve already mentioned NOTAMs, you’re calling them up, you’re also checking the airspace. What else are you doing on the mountain in terms of self-briefing?

Ben: It’s definitely important to check the weather and the thermal forecast. I also look at the wind forecast to see which way the wind is blowing. For bivouac tours, I’ve got into the habit of planning with the wind, as I started out flying with underpowered wings. I avoid flying against the wind, but use it to my advantage for the most part. Depending on the wing and your own abilities, you can deviate from this, but for pilots who are doing their first bivouac tour with an A or B wing, it is certainly advisable to plan with the wind. The frustration level can be high when you are fighting against the wind. I look at the wind, the weather and whether there are any foehn tendencies near the main Alpine ridge. The most important thing is how the day is developing and whether the planned route still makes sense. Sometimes I realise that a traverse that looked promising on the map the day before is not suitable in the current conditions, and then I prefer to fly around the area.

Ad Nubes: You’ve prepared yourself now, you’re ready for take-off. I’m still looking at dummies to see if there’s anything going on in the air, but when you’re flying bivouac, you’re all alone most of the time and don’t have any dummies available. How do you decide now, could thermals already be on, when do you take off?

Ben: On the one hand, I can feel it at most launch sites, unless there are some terrain edges significantly further ahead or something like that, where the thermal is obviously coming off and I’m behind it. Then you can usually feel it at the launch site when the thermals start to rise, ideally.

Ad Nubes: Wind that passes by rhythmically.

Ben: Exactly. When there are phases that last longer than a minute or two, or when the first clouds form above you, or when golden eagles turn up in front of you and show that it’s going thermal, those are always my favourite signs. But it also happens that these signs don’t materialise and you think it should have been thermally active by now. Then the question arises: Do I risk taking off now and perhaps land in the valley straight away, annoyed that I didn’t wait another hour, or would I rather wait and miss out on good thermal time? There is no one-size-fits-all answer. I haven’t landed directly after take-off on a bivouac tour for many years, but I tend to wait too long rather than too short. I definitely don’t get the maximum out of early starts on bivouac tours, but make sure that the conditions are reasonably stable. Of course, there is also the reverse case, as we are currently experiencing in the Northern Alps, where you wait too long. Fortunately, the problem is usually less pronounced when you’re travelling towards the main Alpine ridge. But in certain areas, especially after a certain time of day, it can be difficult to get away from some mountains because the Bavarian wind blows over them. You have to weigh up the situation carefully.

Ad Nubes: Of course, it can also happen that you’re standing on the wrong mountain, in the wrong town square, that the wind direction is wrong. What do you do in that case? Pack up, run down or what?

Ben: Well, if the conditions are really catastrophic, then yes, I would turn back. Fortunately, I’ve never had to do that before. The thermals usually prevail at some point. Sometimes it’s enough to descend a little. If there is a take-off possibility further down in the terrain, losing 100 to 200 metres in altitude can help, as the thermals can still be stable there, while there is already a strong wind at the top. Everyone has to decide for themselves whether they want to fly in such conditions – it will definitely be a wild ride.

I once spent the night in the Engadin on the main Alpine ridge. When I climbed up the hill in the morning, I had a strong crosswind, but the sun was favourable. I put up my glider, took off and glided to the opposite side of the mountain in the hope of finding better conditions there. Early in the morning, an area of rain moved through, but then I experienced one of the best moments of bivouac flying. I actually caught the first thermal of the day at the trigger point I had thought about beforehand. It started to rise gently just above the ground and got better and better. After I had gained about 100 to 200 metres, two young golden eagles suddenly appeared, having glided over from the neighbouring mountain. They had obviously noticed that it was starting and decided to give me some thermal coaching. Normally eagles fly a few circles, overtake you and then are gone. But these two really wanted to fly with me. Every time they overtook me, they came back down, not flying in waves, but flying parallel and very close to me – so close that I could see their irises and every single feather. They flew to within three metres of me and it felt like they were smiling at me, like: “Yes, the first thermal of the day is already running.” It was magical. I flew at the same height as them for over ten minutes, very close and as if it was a team effort. They kept coming back and we savoured the moment together.

Ad Nubes: Have you ever had an attack from a bird of prey?

Ben: Once I was actually attacked by a golden eagle. Normally, golden eagles make it quite clear when they’re annoyed by their waving flight, and then I just get out of the way. This has always worked well so far. But once I climbed up near Bruneck and wanted to cross the river to my friend who was there in her van. I didn’t want to take the long way round and so I scrambled along the slope at a low base. Suddenly I realised that six or seven different species of birds of prey were engaged in a fierce aerial battle below me. It was a lot of screaming and squawking, fortunately about 100 metres below me. There was a thermal bubbling above me, and I carefully tried to use that thermal to gain some altitude while watching the raptor party below me. I wanted to make sure they didn’t come up to me slowly so I could get away in time. But suddenly there was a loud thump on the wing. I looked up and saw that a golden eagle was above me – apparently I had broken the camel’s back and it didn’t like my presence at all.

Ad Nubes: That was near Bruneck?

Ben: That was near Bruneck, yes.

Ad Nubes: Near Pfalzen.

Ben: No, that’s on this ridge south-west of Bruneck. That’s the first ridge if you fly from Speikboden towards Sterzing.

Ad Nubes: I recently read that there are extremely aggressive birds of prey. The local association announced that you should be careful. When was that?

Ben: That was probably 3 years ago or something, 3 or 4. I definitely had 2 big holes in my screen.

Ad Nubes: You were able to land? The glider was still airworthy?

Ben: Yes, full. He flew half a dozen more attacks, but then I saw it coming, every time he flew an attack and then I just plucked really hard at the C-lines so that the whole glider rustled a bit and was deformed and then he always turned off and I made it a few metres over the river and over the cornfield, really only by a metre and a half. Yes, I glued it with adhesive sealant and this time not with duct tape.

Ad Nubes: Do you have a repair kit with you?

Ben: I usually have a bit of adhesive sail, a bit of paraglider line and a few needles for splicing so that I can make minor repairs.

Ad Nubes: Okay, now you’re in the air, you probably are, so every pilot does a weather observation. Are you looking at the clouds?

Ben: My experience shows that it doesn’t work so well when I’m flying with an overloaded head. When my head is clear, it works much better. However, the real skill is to have a clear head, and there is no one-size-fits-all guide for that. In recent years, I’ve often struggled to be mentally clear when flying cross-country and not worry about things like “How will I get home?” in advance. Such thoughts distract you from making the right decisions. I often felt that I couldn’t realise my full potential or that of the day because certain thoughts were blocking me in my head.

Ad Nubes: Yes, but watching the weather is not blocking, that’s important for your safety.

Ben: Yes, of course it’s important to observe the weather. But to fly far, you still have to make the right decisions over a longer period of time. In recent years, I’ve often had the feeling that I lacked this flow. However, things went really well again on my last bivouac tour. As far as weather observation is concerned, you probably also mean when you should stop when the clouds get too high, right?

Ad Nubes: When overdevelopment threatens or when you see areas of rain or even thunderstorms.

Ben: Yes, so with small, really small rain cells, I try to avoid them or fly round them. But it’s incredibly difficult to draw a clear line – when it’s still appropriate and when it becomes too much. So far, it seems that I’ve always made the right decisions; I can only knock on wood three times.

Ad Nubes: Have you ever been in a situation where you had to spiral down from a thunderstorm, for example?

Ben: At the very beginning of my flying career, I was once soaring near Salzburg. It was all grey and cloudy, but it still went well in the lower part of the valley, not far above the valley floor. So I wasn’t too worried, especially as no thunderstorms were forecast for the day. But as time went on, the wind got stronger and stronger and I climbed higher and higher. At some point, I heard the first clap of thunder behind me and realised that it was time to land. However, I realised that I could hardly get out of the windward area against the wind. It took ages to fly forwards at full speed. As soon as I had spiralled down a little, I was immediately climbing strongly again. Pulling big ears didn’t help much either – I was almost flying backwards. It was pretty exciting to get down there.

Ad Nubes: That was pretty much at the beginning of your career?

Ben: That was probably about seven years ago. Back then I was still flying with my B-glider. Once, near Bruneck, I came under a really big, dark cloud that sucked me up over 1,000 metres in straight flight. In the end, I steered towards the edge of the cloud at a 45-degree angle and hoped that I could still get out from under the edge. But at some point I realised that my glide angle was getting steeper and steeper and I was flying straight into the cloud. In the end, I was pulled about 300 metres into the cloud.

Ad Nubes: Did you spiralt out?

Ben: No, no, I was climbing 7 metres a second, so I wouldn’t have had a chance to spiral out, which means going full throttle and flying straight ahead.

Ad Nubes: In my opinion, the safe method anyway.

Ben: As soon as I’m in a cloud and no longer have a view of the ground, I no longer spiral. Without a horizon, it’s difficult to spiral out cleanly. If you’re practised, it could probably still work in calm air. But the problem is that you usually don’t stay calm in such situations, especially if the updraft is so strong that you think about spiralling in the first place.

My experience shows that even if I spiral in a strong updraft – let’s say with a climb of 6 metres per second and a sink of 3 metres in the full spiral – I may lose 50 or 100 metres after a few minutes of spiralling. But by the time I have fully exited the spiral, I am often 50 metres further up again. From a certain strength of climb, a spiral only makes limited sense, unless you are trying to get away from a wisp of cloud quickly and the climb is not too strong.

Ad Nubes: Can you give us a few tips on finding thermals, how do you find thermals when you’re travelling? I think there are a thousand tips and everyone has their own methods.

Ben: I try to think my intuition through less and rely more on my experience instead. That worked wonderfully on the last tour: When the sun was shining and the wind was favourable, I just flew and somehow it always worked out. I’ve set myself a rule of thumb: If I’m flying very low and have a lot of wind, I no longer try to fight the wind – unless there is no other sensible option and I have a close target in front of me. In most cases, I prefer to look for a source of upwind with a tailwind.

Ad Nubes: Logically, you cover a much larger area if you fly with the wind and then have a greater chance of finding thermals again.

Ben: Even if there is a good baffle slope behind you that is not in the desired flight direction, you should be prepared to fly back a little if in doubt. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet to find a thermal entry point that allows you to move forward again later against the valley wind. At times I was certainly too fixated on moving forwards and really wanted to fly further in that direction. I often thought: ‘There must be something more to come. In hindsight, it would sometimes have been wiser to simply turn round, fly back to the next baffle slope or thermal hotspot and try again there.

Ad Nubes: Let’s move on to landing, how do you choose your landing spot? I imagine it’s a bit problematic, you have to know practically, can I take off there the next day, you don’t even know the wind direction the next day?

Ben: I don’t orientate myself so much on the wind direction when I choose a landing site. Instead, I try to land in a place that is already facing south-east or south, or from where I can walk there. It’s important for me to land as high up and as remote as possible. It’s amazing how often I’ve managed to fly into a side valley late in the day and land there at the end of the valley when the wind is blowing in perfectly. Otherwise, I make sure to land high and, if possible, not on western or northern flanks or along northern mountain ranges where only north, west or north-west winds prevail the next day.

Ad Nubes: So you assume that you will have thermals the next day and therefore always have a south or south-west wind.

Ben: If the wind is so strong that the thermals can no longer fight it, at some point flying no longer makes sense. That’s why I always try to reach south-east or south-facing slopes. However, there have been times when I’ve landed on the Arlberg, far in the hinterland, and only had west-facing slopes available. Although the weather forecast for the next day was good, I still had to fight my way up the pass for three hours in the evening, jump over massive granite blocks for an hour and cross scree fields without paths. The next day, I ran at full speed for another five hours, overtaking all the other hikers to get to a good starting point near Galtür or Ischgl in the valley. In the end, the effort was worth it because I was finally able to take off, even if the day wasn’t quite as good as forecast.

Ad Nubes: Flying alone, that’s the thing you actually prefer. You don’t necessarily need someone to fly with you?

Ben: I think it’s super nice that I got to know Marcel and that I can go on a bivouac tour with him from time to time. But yes, in the past it was always such a solo thing and I would like to see a few more people turn up who are up for such tours and have the right skillset, but otherwise I’m quite happy travelling alone.

Ad Nubes: Do you do a debriefing in the evening? So you look at it, what mistakes did I make today? What could I have done better? Do you do this in the evening on the mountain?

Ben: Yes, it’s an old tradition from highlining that you sometimes sit down together again in the evening and have a so-called safety meeting, I just do it with myself, what went well today, where did I perhaps make not so great decisions or really shitty decisions and just review the day, close my eyes and let my thoughts drift a bit.

Ad Nubes: Yes, are you just thinking about it or are you writing it down?

Ben: Nah, maybe it wouldn’t be so bad to write it down from time to time, but I only do it in my head.

Ad Nubes: We actually have a great thread in our bodenlos forum, Lessons learnt, which is a great thing. Writing something like that down and then perhaps reading it again later is a useful thing to do. You could probably fill entire books with your experiences.

Ben: Yes, there have been one or two adventures in the last 10 years.

Ad Nubes: What’s it like to spend the night alone in the mountains? There are bears, wolves, I don’t know. Any animals are not a problem for you, are they?

Ben: No, I’ve done bivouac tours in bear country and camped there without worrying too much. When I was 18 and travelling in Ecuador, there were only spectacled bears there. I dared to put my food under my pillow to defend it against a bear in case of doubt. But spectacled bears are usually vegetarians. Now, when I’m travelling in an area with bears, I think it’s probably better to hang the food on the nearest tree instead of putting it under my pillow.

Ad Nubes: What does bear country mean?

Ben: In the Triglav region, in the national park around the highest mountain in Slovenia, bears are probably not permanent residents, but they do occasionally roam the area. Most of the time, however, I’m travelling in areas where it’s very, very unlikely that a bear or wolf will appear by chance. So I don’t worry too much about that. I’m more worried about angry or begrudging rangers or hunters, but so far I haven’t had any problems. However, I almost always try to sleep above 2000 metres.

Ad Nubes: You realise that the thermals are coming to an end, you might have to land at 16:00, or you might have to wait until 11 or 12:00 the other day, that’s a lot of hours spent on the mountain, what do you do with that time?

Ben: Partial weather briefing, but often I’ve slept so badly that I’m glad to be able to snooze a bit. That’s also one of the main reasons why I like to have a tent with me – it serves as protection from the sun and wind. For me, it’s less about using the tent as protection from the rain in bad weather and more about getting out of the sun and wind after a long day in the air. Especially in exposed places where there is no natural shade, this is very pleasant while waiting for the right conditions. Otherwise, I sometimes pass the time by balancing stones. This means placing stones on a peak or edge so that they remain balanced.

Ad Nubes: Don’t you have anything to read?

Ben: No, not usually. But I sometimes have audio books with me offline or listen to music or something.

Ad Nubes: On the subject of accidents and risk management, we’ve already touched on that. So nothing really bad has happened to you so far?

Ben: Well, I’ve had various little injuries where I’ve had a bit of pain somewhere for a few weeks or months or have limped a bit. Mostly from trying to land on some shitty top landing, I’ve also dislocated my shoulder on a cliff in Spain, but I’ve never had anything seriously bad happen to me.

Ad Nubes: It’s not that easy for me either. If you’re at the top of the mountain and you just have a minor injury and can no longer start, you have no mobile phone. And then what?

Ben: That’s why I have my spot with me.

Ad Nubes: OK, can you make an emergency call about this? Can you say something general about your risk management? We’ve touched on it again and again.

Ben: I seem to kind of like pushing myself to my limits from time to time and maybe a little bit beyond. I’ve definitely had the odd scary situation in the last 10 years, but I’ve also learnt a lot in the process. I think I’ve become a bit calmer overall. However, the first few years were definitely characterised by some exaggeration.

Ad Nubes: Well, you’ll say you’ve had more luck than sense.

Ben: Definitely. Yes, absolutely. My reflexes also saved me in all situations, so good reflexes and good training, otherwise I think most of the situations where I needed a bit of luck would have gone wrong. I don’t want to deny that I still sometimes had to rely on a bit of luck. Yes, even if I had good reflexes, sometimes it’s not everything, sometimes it’s not enough.

Ad Nubes: We have already discussed the topic of lessons learnt.

Ben: Leasson learnd, if we want to summarise this very compactly, I think long cross-country flights with a lot of foehn near the main Alpine ridge in foehn corridors have been a recipe for really hairy situations surprisingly often up to now. In this respect, that’s exactly what I’ve been trying to avoid in recent years.

Ad Nubes: We’ve already talked about the community. You know a few other bivouac pilots, like Marcel Dürr, who else did you mention, Sebastian I think?

Ben: Yes, unfortunately I don’t know him personally, but from everything I’ve heard about him, I think he’s a very likeable person with exceptionally high skills or exceptional skills. And if I ever wanted to fly with someone, with really good pilots from the region, then somehow he would be one of the first people I would think of.

Ad Nubes: Good, you still know Charles. The community is manageable.

Ben: Yes, exactly, Niko Mantus is now more into gliding. He used to be a flying instructor, also at the Chiemsee flying school, and has also made big flights himself. Exactly, but apart from that I’m not super connected with the flying scene here. Yes, I used to be much more connected in the slackline scene.

Ad Nubes: That’s very special. I would also do it once in a while, but of course not as extreme as you do, but for 2 days or something like that, 3 days maximum and only very moderately.

Ben: Yes, it doesn’t matter how big the flight is, how many kilometres it is or anything like that. As long as it’s fun and you’ve had your own personal adventure and maybe pushed your limits a little and gone out of your comfort zone a little, been out in nature, spent a good time in nature, that every bivouac adventure or every flying adventure is wonderful, valuable and beautiful.

Ad Nubes: Good, then we come to the last topic. What do you do that should involve flying, apart from bivouac flying? You said you do normal cross-country flying and in inverted commas competition flying, is that something for you?

Ben: I’ve never been particularly interested in competing with others – it’s just not in my nature. In recent years, however, I have thought about possibly taking part in a competition or two to develop as a pilot. I have the feeling that there is still a lot of room for improvement, but I haven’t really improved much in recent years. I occasionally fly around 200 kilometres, but never really consistently beyond that. There are various reasons for this, which are always different but understandable. That’s why I think that in order to become a better pilot, it would make sense to take part in a competition, not necessarily with the aim of winning, but rather with the intention of learning something.

Ad Nubes: At the very beginning, we talked about the fascination of bivouac flying. What fascinates you about paragliding in general? Flying involves risk. So there must be a motivation or a fascination somewhere as to why we do it at all?

Ben: The magic of paragliding is not the glide ratio, which is rather modest compared to other gliders or hang gliders. Rather, it’s the fact that you can stow your glider in a rucksack and take off and land on very small take-off and landing fields. For me, bivouac flying is the ultimate because it fully utilises the possibilities of paragliding. In contrast to a glider, which cannot simply land on a mountain and continue flying the next day, or a hang glider, where this was already proven by a Frenchman around 50 years ago, the paraglider allows you this flexibility in a particularly practical way. I have great respect for hang gliders that do bivouac tours, but paragliders are particularly well suited to such adventures as bivouac flying or hike-and-fly races like the Red Bull X-Alps. This type of flying shows the full potential of the sport and the paraglider and is what makes bivouac flying so magical.

Ad Nubes: I also get annoyed every time I struggle to gain every metre and then you fly straight out and then dismantle the 100 metres that you previously built up metre by metre in 10 minutes, annoying.

Ben: Exactly, so for me the advantage is simply that this paraglider takes you to unusual places and to places where you wouldn’t otherwise be able to go without a car. And even people who fly in gliders wouldn’t be able to land there quickly and take a pee break or something. So for me, that’s the real magic and the real advantage of paragliders, that you can land and take off in all kinds of places.

Ad Nubes: Thank you very much for the interview. It was a lot of fun. You were a very grateful interviewee.

Ben: Nice to meet you, you’re welcome. It was my first time.

Note: The original interview was conducted in German and translated into English with the help of DeepL. The conversation was shortened for better comprehensibility and smoothed with and without the help of ChatGPT.